My Leon B Stars Hall Trick

2014-05-27 01:46:18 pm

Note: this is on hard mode, but it can apply to normal mode as well. What I do here is fake out the first zombie. Then, i run as efficient as possible to pass the sleeper zombie. I am unsure if this is actually RNG. Sometimes, I'll get bit by the sleeper even when I'm trying to perfect my movement as fast as possible (No wide turns, straight running). It's hard to say. Do you guys think RNG is the culprit, or is movement the culprit? An answer in the form of yes or no and and back up support would be appreciated.

Thread title:

TheLevelBest

Edit history:

TheLevelBest: 2014-05-27 06:20:21 pm

TheLevelBest: 2014-05-27 06:19:30 pm

2014-05-27 06:19:03 pm

19 posts

I gave your strategy a go on the US version, but I wasn't able to pull it off completely - dodging the crawler was STUPID EASY thanks to your video though.

Since I wasn't able to pull off your strat on US (not sure if it was due to enemy placement differences or bad replication), I had to come up with another way which seems to be more consistent, but I would need someone to test them both out on SourceNext to be certain.

Jake Tabor

2014-05-27 08:31:49 pm

Your variation of my strat seems too risky. What if that zombie you waited next to decided to bite you? Is that RNG?

TheLevelBest

2014-05-27 08:44:14 pm

19 posts

Quote from Jake Tabor:

Your variation of my strat seems too risky. What if that zombie you waited next to decided to bite you? Is that RNG?

Nope - He can only bite you if you aren't close enough to him before you stop running - the pause is very brief (Just until Leon goes back into his default stance) so being grabbed shouldn't be an issue. If positioned properly he will actually circle behind you when you stand still long enough.

Jake Tabor

2014-05-27 10:00:38 pm

I have a hard time getting past the sleeper.

Carcinogen

2014-05-28 01:03:45 am

204 posts

Quote from TheLevelBest:

not sure if it was due to enemy placement differences or bad replication

When I was running on PS2/US a few years back, I did this dodge. It's doable in any version.

TheLevelBest

2014-05-28 03:38:29 pm

19 posts

Quote from Carcinogen:

Quote from TheLevelBest:

not sure if it was due to enemy placement differences or bad replication

When I was running on PS2/US a few years back, I did this dodge. It's doable in any version.

Oh shit, sick - how consistently were you able to pull it off? Do you have a video of it? (You're referring to Jake's video I hope).

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2014-05-29 03:05:49 pm

2014-05-29 03:03:57 pm

204 posts

It was really hard, but I practiced it and I remember doing it multiple times... It's possible with a little consistency, but The zombies all have the same starting positions between J and US.

So far, I've only noticed enemy patterns were only different in these places:
1. Starting area in (A scenario)
2. Getting off the bus in (A scenario)
3. 2F Main Hall (A Scenario)
4. 2 Lickers in Basement instead of 1 (A Scenario)
5. Stairs leading to Helicopter Roof (B Scenario)

Everything else is exactly the same. Any hard dodge that Jake shows off can be done the same on NTSC.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2014-05-29 03:22:46 pm

2014-05-29 03:18:59 pm

204 posts

As for whether the culprit is "movement", there's something to notice about crawling zombies:

The forearms are the actual grab detection boxes, which are always active in animations where the zombie stands, turns, and moves. They work within one frame, which is why it's so hard to execute dodges on them in RE3 without creating more aiming frames. Getting up and falling are the only rules where it doesn't work.

If you can run past the forearms without your hitbox touching them, you won't get grabbed. The locomotion + turning of crawling zombies only happens during the animation where the zombie is left-arm out, right arm-back. So, what Jake is doing when he's entering the room, is he's standing in a position where the crawling motion (when it puts its left arm out) pulls its facing position toward the corner of the bench where Jake is standing for a second before charging around all of them.

The window is very tight, because you have to do it before the crawling zombie moves forward + turns an increment by putting its left arm out again.

The actual success rate is RNG though, because sometimes the first zombie will shamble quickly and ruin the opportunity for a setup. I'm not even sure how to manipulate the shambling speed of zombies.

As for whether the culprit is "movement", there's something to notice about crawling zombies:

http://youtu.be/1yJ3fpnf_Ic?t=2m40s

The forearms are the actual grab detection boxes, which are always active in animations where the zombie stands, turns, and moves. They work within one frame, which is why it's so hard to execute dodges on them in RE3 without creating more aiming frames. Getting up and falling are the only rules where it doesn't work.

If you can run past the forearms without your hitbox touching them, you won't get grabbed. The locomotion + turning of crawling zombies only happens during the animation where the zombie is left-arm out, right arm-back. So, what Jake is doing when he's entering the room, is he's standing in a position where the crawling motion (when it puts its left arm out) pulls its facing position toward the corner of the bench where Jake is standing for a second before charging around all of them.

The window is very tight, because you have to do it before the crawling zombie moves forward + turns an increment by putting its left arm out again.

The actual success rate is RNG though, because sometimes the first zombie will shamble quickly and ruin the opportunity for a setup. I'm not even sure how to manipulate the shambling speed of zombies.

TheLevelBest

2014-05-30 05:09:52 pm

19 posts

The crawling zombie is easy for me - I just can't do the dodge of the zombies after as Jake does in his video, which is why I had to find another way to do it (which is barely a second slower).

Jake Tabor

Edit history:

Jake Tabor: 2014-05-31 12:59:01 am

2014-05-30 09:26:12 pm

49 posts

Quote from TheLevelBest:

The crawling zombie is easy for me - I just can't do the dodge of the zombies after as Jake does in his video, which is why I had to find another way to do it (which is barely a second slower).

I'm looking at your video closely and the lay out of the zombies supports what carc said- it's exactly the same as every other version. As for the part that you are having trouble on, it's doable in any version. Same difficulty. So, you didn't *have* to make a variation as if that was your ONLY option, in fact I don't think that this part is RNG anymore. The part that is rng is the sleeper. All in all, if people want to be more consistent early on then they can use your strat, despite that zombie being so damn close to you when you wait and scaring you =p.

The sleeper is quite interesting. nice piece of information by carc: if the hitbox does not connect with his forearms, then you are safe.

My strategy overall mainly comes down to manipulation and angles.

Jake Tabor

2014-05-30 09:40:21 pm

49 posts

Although, I do need to point out that this was done on HARD MODE. (I mentioned this on my first post) The enemies are more aggressive, which could explain the gap at the end of this trick between the zombies being a tad wider than on normal mode. Whether it's Japanese or USA version is irrelevant though. I will need to test this strategy on the Gcn. I have a feeling that the turn I make at the end of the trick is still possible, though.

TheLevelBest

Edit history:

TheLevelBest: 2014-05-31 12:35:04 pm

TheLevelBest: 2014-05-31 12:30:04 pm

2014-05-31 12:28:16 pm

19 posts

This has pretty much been the only part of RE2 I've played the last few days and I think I've gotten this dodge down - Not sure if it's faster than Jake's but definitely an improvement on my previous since there's no pausing required!

Basically what's being done with the last two zombies is just like dodging the first zombie in the Red/Brown Hall (Interrogation Hall or whatever you wanna call it), kinda teasing them until they put their arms out and allows them to be dodged easier - I would assume this is because the placement of their hitboxes change during that animation, but I'm no expert so let me know what you guys think.

If this was done on SourceNext, the room could be cleared in less than 5 seconds since there's a shorter pause when switching camera angles.

Jake Tabor

2014-05-31 01:06:20 pm

Your new variation of my strat definitely seems on par, if not faster than my original strat.

TheLevelBest

2014-05-31 01:16:43 pm

19 posts

Awesome - to comment on your post about the crawler, I don't think there's any RNG involved. In my experience the only time I get hit is when I do my second turn too soon or too late. Maybe it differs on Hard Mode - I would have to play it to be sure.

Jake Tabor

2014-05-31 01:25:31 pm

Interesting. I thought about that as well.